#ALSO CAN WE TALK ABOUT LOKIS FINAL COSTUME

[jocelynmakenna]

I'm. I'm fucking broken. I just watched the Loki finale. Loki's journey from the first episode to now. His glorious purpose, to be the king of the gods. He went from being power hungry to just wanting to protect his friends to understanding what a wonderful glorious burden his true role is. To protect everyone and everything. What a character arc. What a show.

And I'm gonna be so fucking mad when the next project fuckiNG RUINS IT GOD DAMN

[humandisastertonystark]

So...let me get this straight again once and for all because I can't believe this isn't just a very, very bad fever dream.

After horribly killing him off in Infinity War, they decide to bring him back as a complete caricature of himself, basically making him an incompetent bumbling fool, to let their insufferable Mary Sue shine who shits all over him with the rest of the other characters for a whole damn season and then they reward him, after all this unnecessary additional torment, with the responsibility to fix the mess caused by Mary Sue, holding the timelines together for all eternity, doomed to be alone forever...something they also made him say he is the most scared of, multiple times.

How very fucking lovely

I can't believe I'm actually saying this but I wish he would've just stayed dead after IW

Also I hope everyone responsible for this, steps on Legos multiple times a day for the rest of their lifes

[percheduphere]

So...Thoughts on the whole people thinking Sylvie is Aro-Ace? I can kinda see her being Aromantic, but with her mentioning she's more "hedonistic" than Loki and silently hinting that she's Bi too, can't really see her as Asexual. But what do you think?

LET'S TALK ABOUT SYLVIE'S SEXUALITY, HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH LOKI AND MOBIUS, & HER CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE SERIES NARRATIVE

Before I answer this, I think it's important to acknowledge that fictional characters exist for people's comfort and pleasure. I write original fiction, and I would hope that most artists believe in the right of the audience to interpret character to meet their personal needs. To me, canon is a sandbox. Everyone should play with it as they please and not hate on each other. There are more important things in life to worry about. Therefore, if Sylvie reads as Aro-Ace to you and that reading brings you joy, then she is.

This question inherently requires the need to talk about Sylki in this post. I predominantly analyze Lokius, so please, no hate! My number one rule is never yucking someone's yum. Furthermore, Sylvie plays a critical role in Loki's development and the philosophical thrust of the series, of which Mobius also contributes to as the other half of Loki's character arc equation (selflessness and sparing life [Mobius] + free will and revolution [Sylvie]). It would be biased and disingenuous to not acknowledge her contributions to the overarching narrative.

ARO-ACE INTERPRETATION

All right, your question! I can definitely can see Sylvie as being aro-ace. That's a legitimate interpretation based on how she responds to Loki's flirtation and romantic advances. It is also possible that she's an aromantic bisexual. This second possibility is more likely based on the text the audience is given.

THE CANON TEXT

Having said that, I think you're curious about what the source material is trying to say about Sylvie's character and how that influences her sexuality. I believe it's important to remember that external behavior doesn't dictate how someone defines themselves. Closeting and disengagement from intimacy because of trauma are prime examples of this.

The train scene in S1E4 reads as earnest. Loki and Sylvie are both very lonely characters. In this moment, both are trying to connect with someone who finally understands them because they are the same. It's actually a lovely nod to the queer experience.

The dialogue, lighting, and costuming (blue, purple, pink) in this scene communicates they are both queer, specifically bisexual. The lighting and costuming combining to represent the bisexual pride flag is an example of queer subtext in film. The dialogue, while direct, is also written in such a way that it avoids explicitly stating "men and women." Sylvie later comments that the brief flings she indulges in during apocalypses helped her "keep going". She even specifies that apocalypses make people desperate. This suggests that Sylvie likely didn't need to do much wooing or charming like Loki would to obtain a sexual partner. Finally, the way Tom and Sophie play this scene is vulnerable. I therefore believe we can take this on-screen admission at face value.

So the question becomes, why does Sylvie respond to Loki's flirtations the way she does?

SYLVIE'S BACKGROUND

Sylvie was orphaned and forced to run all her life from a very young age. Her backstory is deeply tragic. To live in such a way means that she never had the opportunity to experience adolescence.

NOTE: This is honestly my favorite gif of Sylvie. She's so sweet and cute when she's happy. I can't get over the 5 stars on her employee badge. "Sylvie, can you refill the straws?" "Already did it!" The sweetheart.

Sylvie working at McDonald's accomplishes two things: it allows Disney to fulfill their advertising sponsorship agreement for the fast-food franchise, and it subtly alludes to Sylvie's need to live the adolescence she didn't get to. The TVA forced her into arrested development. She never had the chance to make friends and safely socialize on her own terms. The centuries of trauma have made trust, let alone romance, completely foreign to her.

Which is why, when Loki and Sylvie have romantic scenes, she is often awkward or, if not unreceptive, wary. Her previous flings, as she agrees with Loki, were "never real". Physical intimacy without emotional intimacy is a familiar dynamic for both characters. Their relationship with one another is their first experience of emotional intimacy (or at least attempt at it) outside of their families. The pursuit of this emotional intimacy feels safe to them because they are the same entity and thus they know each other's base nature (versus nurture!) to some degree.

The difference between them is that Sylvie has not experienced social rejection in the way Loki has (nurture!). She recognizes the wrongness with which the TVA has treated her. She knows the absolute atrocities the TVA has committed. She is determined to destroy them to free herself and all timelines. Sylvie is consequently more self-assured, more confident in what she wants and believes in, than Loki. In S2, Sylvie's clarity on desire is what allows her to help Loki articulate what he wants: his friends back, most especially Mobius.

In S1E1, Loki, still posturing before Mobius, describes himself as a "liberator". At this point in the story, we know that isn't true, but it will become true by the finale. This line of dialogue foreshadows Loki's trajectory as well as Sylvie's revealed motivation in S1E4: to liberate.

THE NEXUS EVENT

There are a variety of ways for viewers to interpret what exactly the Nexus Event was. The canon, within the text of Mobius's dialogue and verbal confirmation from the creators, is that Loki and Sylvie fell in love. Now, I'm not going to spend time arguing over other interpretations here, but I will say that regardless of whatever pairing or OT3 a viewer ships, the Nexus Event was ALSO definitively this: two Lokis in the same place, at the same time, not feeling lonely together.

And Sylvie, who had confessed to Loki she has no friends and has never really experienced joy, answers Renslayer with the number of positive memories she has:

Sylvie doesn't state it outright, but the subtext is clear that her one positive memory was her time with Loki on Lamentis. Indeed, moments later, Sylvie prunes herself in an effort to find and rescue him.

SYLVIE & MOBIUS

But being the harshly pragmatic individual she is, upon arrival and encountering Alioth, Sylvie assumes Loki didn't make it. I don't think Sylvie means what she says in a cruel way. I think she believes this because she is accustomed to disappointment and accordingly guards herself with cynicism. Sylvie's traumas, her difficulty with trust, her inexperience with intimate relationships, and her cynicism all combine to create an individual who may appear aro-ace when that may not necessarily be the case. Please note, however, that Sylvie being aro-ace or aro-bisexual may still be a possibility. My analysis here is based on what the text and subtext seem to be telling us about her character.

Notably, it is Mobius who is more optimistic about Loki's survival, wondering if Sylvie truly believes that Loki is dead.

This moment is brief, but it is significant because Mobius's optimism implies that not only does he believe in Loki, he also wants Loki to be alive. Sylvie is intelligent. She can read between the lines. We can also assume an off-screen conversation took place between them that confirmed for Sylvie Mobius's genuine care for Loki. When Sylvie informs Loki of this fact, I believe we get this:

Mobius was conservative in how Loki might interpret their relationship, extending a handshake before their goodbyes. Loki, on the heels of his conversation with Sylvie, chooses to hug him instead. The result: Mobius is delighted!

I've long pondered on why Mobius would say, "You're my favorite" to Sylvie. I believe this is why: she helped along their friendship and opened the gates for physical affection between them. This demonstrates that Sylvie cares enough for Loki to ensure he is secure in his bond with Mobius. It likely helped that Mobius did not deny the TVA's evil when she pointed it out to him, and that he did not hesitate to apologize to her for it.

Ironically, it is Mobius's optimism, especially in the potential of broken things to become something better (whether it is Loki himself or the TVA), that creates the fraught philosophical divide between Sylvie and Mobius (and Loki) with regards to the TVA in S2.

THE S1 FINALE

The S2 finale is where the narrative between Loki and Sylvie turns, and the plot pivots to the deepening relationship between Loki and Mobius. Triggering this event is Loki's desire to slow down and think about the consequences of killing HWR in the Citadel at The End of Time.

This may seem out-of-character at first glance. S1E1-E4 have demonstrated that Loki's decision making is sometimes chaotic by virtue of impulse. What was the last impulsive decision he made with heavy consequences?

He ran off after Sylvie. A good decision ultimately, as Loki learns the truth about the TVA through Sylvie, but only by luck. This decision very nearly cost Loki a friendship, one he didn't even realize he had until Mobius called him a "bad friend."

Despite the fallout, Mobius recovers relatively quickly once he confirms Loki's claims and views Ravonna's recording of C-20. He reestablishes trust with Loki as soon as possible to help Loki be with the one he loves. Why? Because Mobius is ultimately selfless and wants Loki's happiness regardless of his own feelings of jealousy.

Which circles us back to the theme of trust and Sylvie's challenges with it.

Loki and Sylvie's relationship falls apart not because of lack of mutual interest, but because Sylvie loses trust in Loki and with good reason: HWR (and thus the TVA) is the cause of all her suffering.

It is not Sylvie's fault she is this way. She hasn't had enough time to develop meaningful relationships, and the one relationship that was meaningful to her (Loki's) became, in her eyes, a profound betrayal. This experience only adds to the other traumas Sylvie carries with her, making encounters with Loki in S2 emotionally difficult if not triggering.

The relationships of Loki & Sylvie and Loki & Mobius are intentionally set side-by-side for 3 critical reasons:

1.) To demonstrate Loki's growth by developing trust and thus emotional intimacy with others.

2.) To create the Plot B emotional source of conflict in S2.

3.) To set-up Mobius and Sylvie's individual beliefs and values (selflessness and sparing life [Mobius] + free will and revolution [Sylvie]), which Loki combines into his own system of beliefs and values. This combination gives Loki the strength and wisdom to ascend the throne and become the God of Stories (and Time).

THE S2 FINALE

Loki comes to his final decision after speaking with the two halves of his character arc equation. Loki first seeks out Mobius, who shares with him the distinction between himself and Ravonna. Now, this is brainwashed Mobius. Brainwashed Mobius believed Ravonna could do the impossible while he couldn't. But Loki knows Ravonna's corruption.

Beneath Mobius's wisdom that "most purpose is more burden than glory" is also Mobius's heart: he could not prune children and that instinct was the right decision. His "failure" was not a failure of duty but rather his humanity succeeding despite the brainwashing. It's this same intrinsic compassion that drove Mobius to convince Ravonna to spare Loki. Loki articulates this to Don as such. He therefore takes the message of selflessness and sparing life from Mobius to Sylvie.

Sylvie, in turn, challenges Loki, stating they should have the freedom and right to fight whatever comes on their own terms.

She also stresses that it is all right to destroy things. Upon hearing this, Loki comes to the conclusion that what is destroyed must be replaced with something better. What needs to be destroyed? Not the TVA and the people in it (not Mobius, Verity, OB, and Casey), but the Loom.

Loki sacrificed himself (selflessness + sparing life [Mobius]) in order to save all timelines (free will + revolution [Sylvie]). Loki sparing Sylvie's life is a direct consequence of Mobius having fought to spare his.

Through this sacrifice, Loki gifts Sylvie the chance to get the type of positive experiences she wants and needs, which includes future romance, if she so chooses. That is canon and is a genuinely romantic gesture regardless of anyone's interpretation of mutual reciprocation or lack thereof.

It is also canon that Loki loves Mobius and Mobius loves Loki. Their actions for one another across both seasons demonstrate this to be true. Is it also romantic? Absolutely. Is it sexual? On screen, no, and it doesn't have to be. Romance does not require sex, let alone physical contact, to exist.

Loki loves them both.

[cleabellanov]

💙 hi and welcome to my ted talk about the latest episodes of what if, please read through (3) 💙

First of all. Why is season 2 so...happy?

I'm not complaining. Marvel has enough sad stories for a lifetime, but I found that, instead of exploring demises, we're now seeing victories. Old villains find their insight and become heroes (Hela, Nebula, Gamora) and lives are influenced for the better, earlier on (Peter Quill, Bucky, Hope).

It might be nothing.

But I think it's something.

You know what season 2 of what if comes right after? Season 2 of Loki. And, as you'll see at the end of this post, their colors are making themselves known.

Could it be that, from his throne, Loki got sick of watching sad stories and seeing worlds die? There is a chance, I don't know how plausible, but there is, that he's influencing all that we saw this season. A little hope here, a little time there, and, using their free will, everyone gets a second chance.

That, or Uatu felt bad for us and wanted to gift us in honor of New Year being in 1-2 days. Do tell me if you have additions on that.

If I had to bet on something, it would be the overall fan reaction to the opening scene. I screamed, yes. Did they expect us to see Loki's name there in the subtitles and be totally chill about it?

"To be or not to be, that is the question"

I can totally see Tom having this idea for the opening scene: just Loki reciting Hamlet, and altough to his brother's bordedom, acting from Shakespeare. And it was the best idea he could have.

It's a missable detail, but Thor mentions Mjölnir! And you know how? As a gift...for Loki!

He responds to that with "I...have misplaced it" which is, yeah, typical, but how do you just lose Mjölnir, Loki? The idea, however, is that he'd be able to lift it, which I would have loooved to see on screen. But this was fun to have too.

And the response to Captain Carter's "You're a bigger drama queen than your brother" (talking to Thor)?? 😭

"Blessed"

Can we also point out how insane it is that after just being stripped from her home in an unknown world, Peggy still wanted to help?

She not only has a hero's soul, she is that brave as to turn down The Watcher's warnings and offers to take her back safe. And remember, not everyone can hear Uatu as he narrates. But she can, sometimes.

"What if, what if, what if. I have to try."

"Not on my watch"

This ambition of hers, is, of course, given by her humanity too. But that's not only a bad thing. The Watcher's all knowing, his experience of seeing worlds die everyday, has made him unsensible (from our point of view). That's not the case for Peggy.

Amidst all her adventures, however, perhaps she's also searching to avenge the love she lost, searching for her happy ending. In the movie Endgame, I have to admit she felt optional, like Steve wasn't meant to be there with her. But not now.

I wish The Watcher told her she has a happy ending somewhere.

I don't know about you, but this episode...is my favourite ever from the series. It used to be the Strange Supreme one, but that's on the second place of the podium now.

We got to see queen Hela, drama prince/ actor Loki, king Thor. Bucky, NOT the Winter Soldier, and Steve, finally on the same page! Scarlet Witch!! Using her powers for good, not corrupted. All of them in cool costumes too. If things like these were on live action, I'd lose my f- mind, if I haven't already. :))

And now the green. The "rifts" that are tearing this world apart are very familiar in color.

And this is not the only thing that's turning green, when it used to be multi-colored. The prism, too, the one from which The Watcher watches and narrates. And I'm not talking about the Time Stone. I'm talking about the tree of life, and how it might actually have a serious impact over everything. I mean, does Uatu know anything? And what was that decorated Yggradsil in the trailer, before the holidays?

Nevertheless, I think it's related in some way, and if it's not, don't blame me. I really like green.

That being said, thanks for reading <3

[ezralovrr]

Quick little ramble about Sylvie’s season 2 appearance

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I find it interesting how Sylvie’s outfits in season 2 reflected her character. Keep in mind, this is my personal interpretation of her costuming and will therefore include personal thoughts on her character in season 2 overall.

In the post credits scene of episode 1, we see Sylvie all ragged and brushing off her injuries after the whole HWR situation, complete with messy hair and an eyebrow injury. Despite her appearance standing out quite well in an 1980’s McDonald’s, Sylvie is ready to try everything; new food, new opportunities, a new life.

Episode 2, we see her in the standard 80’s McD’s uniform, looking happier than ever (complete with an amazing new hairstyle). But it’s not until she has her jacket on and after she finds out what Dox is doing does she shed the “skin” of her new life, akin to a snake. Underneath the uniform, she’s still wearing her outfit from season 1, just polished up. It serves as a reminder to Sylvie that at the end of the day, even if she changes her name, she’s still a Loki variant. She’s inevitably gonna have people come after her due to what she has done. In a way, her jacket is like the cloak she lost on Lamentis-1.

Episode 5 is when she changes appearance again when we see her get sent back to her timeline. Her top from season 1 is gone, replaced with a grey shirt. She’s no longer attached to the “Loki variant” name the TVA branded her with. She’s now Sylvie who works at McD’s, and is a regular at a bar and relatively quiet record shop. (This grey shirt can also be used to represent her as a “gray character”; yes, she killed HWR and doomed everyone, but she did it for a cause, a mission she intended to complete from the start to ensure variants like her wouldn’t lose their lives and homes as well.)

And this is carried on to her in the final scene of the show; she’s not wearing the season 1 top when talking with Mobius, she’s keeping the gray shirt. She’s finally free from her life as a Loki variant, and is now her own person free to wander the multiverse.

But hey. That’s just a theory. A fashion theory.

[therese-lokidottir]

I know I've definitely thought of this before. But it's really like looking at a well-done figurine of something and then looking at a hideous bootleg of that thing.

I could gush all day long about how great Michelle Pfeiffer is as Catwoman. I will just watch this scene and the scene where she first breaks down and sews the Catwoman costume. I love how Pfeiffer can go from quiet and quirky to being deadly and sexy and it seems completely in character. I love the symbolism in Catwoman's costume falling apart the more Selina falls apart. That is a character that is unhinged and tragic.

What works about the character and the romance is that fact the film does take time to show Selina and Bruce talking, getting along and going on dates. This version of Bruce Wayne is this kind of eccentric but closed off person and you do see him falling for this other off beat person and understand they really are birds of a feather. The whole thing is throughout the whole courtship it's clear Selina really does wish she could have this. She looks in the mirror and ask herself what are you doing Selina. Why can't she stop and just be happy with Bruce. Again, at the party when she just completely breaks down in front of Bruce and they figure out each other identities. Does this mean we have to start fighting? She doesn't want to hurt Bruce but it has been set up multiple times now that she is on this path and she can't stop herself. That's what makes that climax so effective because we see Selina as a normal person and the hints of the happiness that she could have.

The finale of Loki really doesn't work because not only because the romance is bad but because Sylvie is such an empty character. She is nothing but revenge she has no idea what do with her life after words. No plans, no desires and no wants. Also, Sylvie doesn't understand Loki at all. Not only in the climax does she accuse him of wanting a throne but in the suppose romantic cuddling under the blanket scene. Oh, maybe there's universe you can rule and Loki basically rolls his eyes at the suggestion. He has long sense stopped caring about that. By the end Sylvie rejects empathy and the idea the idea Loki is trying to the right thing. Sylvie, like everyone else, places Loki in the role of the villain.

Selina isn't rejecting Bruce because she thinks her revenge is more important. She rejects him because she feels she's too broken to have a happy ending with him. Her reason parallel Loki's in 2011 and The Avengers. The "I've gone too far to stop."

Look at Selina at the end, her hair is a mess, her clothes are in shreds and her makeup is running while she is screaming and laughing mad. Sylvie still has her perfect curls, she doesn't have a spec of dirt in her and she has the exact same pouty expression she had the entire series. The actress can't even manage a tear.

So anyway, like everything LOKI2021 copies and steals from it complete misses the point and does a terrible job of recreating it

I realized something today and forgive me if someone already has.

Episode 6 of the first season of Loki is directly ripped off this scene from Batman Returns.

Think about it. Blonde woman crazed with grief and anger, wanting nothing more than her revenge, while a brunette man tries to talk her down. She ultimately ignores his pleas and kills the big bad anyway.

There are differences of course. Selena isn’t risking trillions of lives across the multiverse by ignoring Bruce and killing Max. She also doesn’t try to kill Bruce for the crime of questioning her.

God, even Michelle’s hair is the same as Mary Sue Loki’s.

Just something that occurred to me.